Joanne Butcher, Filmmaker Success

auto generated transcript

Mark (: 00:00

Welcome back. Friends to our podcast unlocking your world of creativity. And today we're taking our global travels to Miami Beach, Florida, and we're talking with Joanne Butcher. Joanne is a great film business mentor, and I love the line, Joanne, that helps you get funded, produced, and distributed globally. You're helping a lot of creative people get their work up and out into the world, aren’t you??

Joanne (: 00:30

Yes, yes. And the reason I say that is because I know it sounds strange when we are talking about business, but a lot of filmmakers are not actually thinking about distribution. So they think, oh, I'm going to make a film. Then they finish it. And then they're like, now what do I do?

Mark (: 00:52

I have this great film. Where's the guy,

Joanne (: 00:56

What do I do? And then they're like, oh, I know I'm going to get it into a film festival. I have nothing against film festivals. I have worked in many film festivals, but it's not actually the business. What the business is, is to get distribution for your film and filmmakers mistakenly think that getting into a film festival is the way to get distribution. And it is, if you get into Sundance if you get into Cannes if you get into one of the big five, but other than that, there are many opportunities for distribution. And as I said, that's just not what filmmakers are thinking about. So what I do is I sort of say, okay, let's go back and say, well, let's start with distribution and decide where do you want to get distribution? And then we can aim for that, but because filmmakers tend to not realize that that's the destination, then they're actually wasting a lot of time, energy, money, and resources because then they don't have that target. Imagine if a painter thought that when they finished their painting, they were supposed to hang it in a bathroom. It's just not how it works. So it's a little bit like that with filmmakers.

Mark (: 02:24

And I'm sure you attract a lot of these young, creative dynamic filmmakers with some really interesting stories. What, what sort of things are you seeing coming across your desk these days?

Joanne (: 02:36

Well, you know, that's funny you, cause you say young. I have some young filmmakers. I have a filmmaker right now. He's probably in his last month of post-production on his first feature. And he is a very recent graduate of NYU film school, one of the top film schools, but I actually met him through his mother. And so it's more unusual for me to have such young clients, he just was maybe because his mother was a coach or I don't really know, but he was very open and he was so open to the idea of working with me, his mother introduced us. We had a conversation and he signed up with me before I knew what his film was."I said, well, what films are we going to work on?" He said, "well it's going to be a script that I'm writing. And it's about a young man who graduates from college and he goes back home to live with his parents. And he's hanging out with his friends." I said, "absolutely not," he said, and "this other story ..." that's the problem that he made. It was just so funny and he was so open to another idea. So now he's made a fantastic film is set in the 1890s about this little family that has a little homestead. And then one day a bad guy shows up and all kinds of exciting things happen.

Mark (: 04:10

I love that. You're right, I did put an overemphasis on the word young, but certainly independent and wanting to improve their craft, not just their filmmaking, but to your point, the business of filmmaking.

Joanne (: 04:27

So actually I would say the majority of my clients are a little older than him and there are two things that bring people to me. One is they, maybe they went to film school, maybe they made films and then they couldn't see how to make it work financially and they maybe quit. And then eventually they realized, but wait a minute, this is something I really have to do. I really have to do this. This is why I was put on the planet. This is what I was made for. And actually, the truth is I don't know how to do it. That's, a very sort of common kind of person who comes to me and then other people are, they do realize that they don't know about the business and they could have been to film school or not, but maybe they're already making films, but eventually you get to the point where you realize, well, one of my favorite directors, John Sayles said, after he made his first feature, he said, I realized I had to learn how to raise money or get a new set of friends.

Joanne (: 05:34

There are only so many times you can have your friends, you know, work for free. And so people come to me when they realize, oh, filmmaking is about story and sound and color, and it's about business, you know? And then if you don't understand the business side of it and love, you know, that this is your podcast because I think that I went, started down this path years ago. I took a class actually. I brought a class to the Miami-Dade community college, which was a two-day class for artists called art as a career. And it was the first time it went into my head. I was like, oh, it's a career.

Mark (: 06:25

[inaudible] Otherwise that's where the term starving artists comes in. Yeah.

Joanne (: 06:35

Yes. And, and there are so many very, very wrong myths out there. I was at an event right before COVID hit when I was still in San Francisco and it was for filmmakers and actors and it was really fun. There were probably 100, 150 people there. And I had been invited to speak for a few minutes. And after I spoke an acting teacher got up very appropriately and then she said, " we all love acting so much. And obviously, we know we're never gonna make any money at it," I was horrified. And I didn't know if I should just leap up and grab her by the throat and shake her or something because I thought, "how can you be teaching actors that they can't own any money at that craft? That is just crazy."

Joanne (: 07:32

But I do think that it's very common that artists in every field, even if they have the privilege of going to school for their art, which some of them do, some of them don't, but even if they do, they're not going to get taught how to create a sustainable career. And so that's why I'm saying that this young man is unusual of realizing so early on in his career, "but wait, I don't know how to do this" Film school, even a top film school, like that tends to prepare filmmakers to go and work in Hollywood. That means they're being taught to go and have a job. And the independent filmmakers who I work with are not really that kind of person, they're not the job type.

Mark (: 08:26

You were mentioning, there are so many new channels of distribution, new places. You yourself even worked a for UK movie and content curation for YouTube are the distribution channels part of learning the business now? Not just how to fund the film, but also where to get it out there.

Joanne (: 08:51

Well, yes, I do think so, but I actually think that there's a misunderstanding that I hear all the time that "oh, the film industry is changing so much," But it is not really I think that there is a proliferation of channels, but really a distribution in some ways is exactly the same as it's been for a long time. And what I mean by that is that if you make a film for a very small amount of money, your chances of getting distribution are small. The more money you have, the more celebrity talent you can bring to your film, the more chances of distribution you have. And I don't think that that's any different than the film business was a hundred years ago.

Mark (: 09:46

So interesting.

Joanne (: 09:48

So if I were making a film a hundred years ago and I got enough money to be able to pay for Gloria Swanson, I would have a big hit. And that's really the way the film industry works today, depending on how much money I can raise, I can bring bigger name talent to my film, and then I have more access to more opportunities for distribution.

Mark (: 10:17

I see what you're saying. You might tell a filmmaker, don't just bring me your finished work and say, I've got this great piece of art that now I want to mark market. You're saying start way back at the beginning.

Joanne (: 10:30

Yes, very much so. Very much. So I'm a big student of Stephen Covey's seven habits for highly successful people, you know, and one of the seven habits is, to begin with the end in mind. So it's not as though it's, this is something that just applies to film or anything like that. But I think in any art form, if you really are committed to creating a career, then what you want to be doing is creating work that where there's an endpoint and that endpoint is a buyer. And so, another place that filmmakers tend to be confused about this is that they don't know about the fact that there are certain genres that will sell. I think most filmmakers know that it's famous, that if you make a horror film, you don't necessarily need to have big names. Why? Because the horror audience is so in love with that form, that they care about the story. They're not really so interested in who's in the film. They don't go to see the film because some famous person is in it. They go because they want to be scared.

Mark (: 11:50

Yes, exactly. It makes so much sense. Joanne, you've got such an interesting point of view on this raising of the money and the marketing angle where in your background and your career upbringing that this appreciation and even skill of course in raising money, how did you develop this over time?

Joanne (: 12:12

That's such a great question. Nobody asked me that question.

Mark (: 12:16

I find myself asking the questions no one else will.

Joanne (: 12:21

Well so I would say one, I was a starving artist. Two I ended up running a film school and a cinema. It was a nonprofit organization but our cinema was a first-run cinema. What that means in the industry is that we show films when they first come out and we report the box office Biggers so that all of that information can be pulled together. So when you open your newspaper and it says the James Bond film just made $500 million, all of the cinemas had to report in order for that number to be arrived at. Okay. So I was part of the industry that was interested in money. But on the other hand, I run a film school and train filmmakers. I was a filmmaker. And so then I had to learn how to raise money because I had a $500,000 organization to run.

Joanne (: 13:34

I had staff, we were open 364 days a year showing movies, so I had to learn how to raise money. And eventually, I realized, oh, you know, we're serving the beginner filmmakers really well with our classes and everything. What about the more seasoned filmmakers? So I put together a little focus group and I asked them, and really what they needed was to learn how to raise money. So back then I put together a competition. It was called the Florida feature film competition. It was a statewide competition and the filmmakers had to apply with a business plan and a script. And I was basically preparing them to be able to raise money. And the prize was $25,000 in cash and $175,000 in goods and services. And so what I was using the prize as a carrot to get filmmakers, to do the preparation they need to do, to be able to raise money, and out of our six finalists, at least for those films actually got completed.

Joanne (: 14:41

Two of the producers are very successful producers today. One of them has taken about eight films to Sundance. The other one is doing very well. So it was training for producers. And then now what I do is I basically help filmmakers connect the dots. They are like" I, oh, I have an idea, oh, let me write a script. Let me shoot some footage." But, the dots, if you connect the dots all the way and up with somebody putting a butt in a seat, I'm paying for a ticket, you know, whether that's the ticket in the theater, whether it's a subscription to Netflix. So the filmmaker is not connecting those dots. I make this product, I have to sell it at the end. The thing that's really interesting is once they have connected those dots, suddenly their work improves dramatically. That productivity goes through the roof. They're on fire because all of a sudden that destination is clear,

Mark (: 15:57

So good. And you're describing a process that I've had other people almost draw the analogy of entrepreneurs, and new product development all the way, and you're connecting this to the film too, but raising the money is also developing the business plan and being part of pitching, you've got to improve the pitch. I had a producer say, you're always are pitching, so you've got to be good at it.

Joanne (: 16:25

I always say I want my clients. If I call them up at three in the morning and wake them up, that they can pitch me their movie. But pitching, I think is the most significant skill for any film producer in the 21st century to have.

Mark (: 16:48

What do you think about that skill? What, what do we have to improve mainly? What do you see among your filmmakers that you say, here's what you've got to do to be a better pitch person for your film?

Joanne (: 17:01

Well, filmmakers want to tell this story. So they'll come along, they'll pitch you that story, and then they'll pitch it again. Then they'll tell us the story. Maybe I'll tell it this way. Maybe I'll tell it from that angle. Instead of this is how much money I need. This is what I'm going to make the movie. This is what it's going to be done. This is where the distribution is going to be. Let's talk business. So with my clients, they learn eventually to shorten that storytelling drastically shorten the storytelling and get to the business. To me, that's, that's pitching. I have a client, she had the opportunity to pitch her animated series to Amazon kids. And I said, "oh how long is the meeting going to be?" And she said, 25 minutes. And I said, "the most, I want you to talk is five minutes the most because this meeting is to build a relationship. You pitch them your series, and then you find out about them." But what most people would do would is go in there and try and fill up the 25.

Mark (: 18:15

Oh, absolutely. They have their 50 slides for the 25-minute meeting. And their goal is to see how fast we can go through these slides."I've got to get my information out"

Joanne (: 18:29

And I look at pitch decks and they have been written in 0.5. font

Mark (: 18:40

Yeah. I've been on both sides of that meeting

Joanne (: 18:45

Actually, you know, I love virtual reality. I really am interested in VR and I met this woman once and she was looking for a female-owned VR company. She'd already invested in five or six companies. And she was like, I want to invest in a woman-owned company now, for the next one. And so she was receiving pitches and she told me she was looking at about 200 pitch decks a month. And people don't realize that when you're pitching to somebody the truth is, is that they know in a very few seconds if it's a match and that's all you need. For example, with the one I was saying about pitching with Amazon kids, I have a five-minute per episode series for children. That's the right thing for Amazon kids, right. But that's really as much as you need to get across. It's a very small amount of information you need to get across because all you want is the next meeting. But if you are in the wrong place, if you pitch that, but you're in a place that only wants to buy horror, for example, then there's no further conversation. There's no need for further conversation. But what the filmmaker does is just keep telling the story, telling the story, telling the story. And there's just no reason if it's the wrong place, you just move on to the next person. But it's the right person.

Mark (: 20:30

That's good advice. Well, my guest is Joanne butcher. She's a great mentor and counselor and advisor to filmmakers, especially independent filmmakers that need to get funded, produced, and distributed. Joanne, I'm curious, to know, as you think about the connections you want to make, obviously it's great to attract the filmmakers, but who else is in your network that you're trying to build connections with?

Joanne (: 20:57

There's another fantastic question. I love it, Mark. So well I'm always interested in meeting filmmakers, but filmmakers at different levels. So I love to meet filmmakers who are already solidly in the industry because then I can learn more from them. And my goal really now is, to meet more people who have access to money. So, my sweet spot with my clients is people who are making their first feature film. And everybody has their own network. When we’re 18, we have a much smaller network than when we're 50, when we're 70, or whatever. So our network grows. And so what I would like to do is be able to add more people in my network who are investors, because I would love to educate them about the possibilities of investing in film.

Joanne (: 22:10

I hear some very sad stories about people who have been brave enough to take the risk of investing in film. And it goes horribly wrong. I had a client who had invested in a film and raise money for a film that I think they spent about $1.1 million. They had a couple of quite well-known names and the film didn't even remotely make its money back. But I only had to hear one sentence to know that it could never have made the money back. We're not going to name the film or anything like that.

Mark (: 22:44

You Would have known earlier.

Joanne (: 22:45

Oh yeah, yeah. If she had been working with me on that project, there would have been no reason to lose that money. But to me, that's just terribly sad because I just met somebody recently who invested over a million dollars in a film. And there's just no way that they're going to get that money back. I don't know that they're ever going to finish that film. I have clients spending way less than a hundred thousand dollars getting those films finished and getting global distribution. One thing I always say to clients is if they have access to more money and they can raise more money, I'll be sure that that's what we want to do.

Mark (: 23:31

That the money alone would not be the goal.

Joanne (: 23:34

Right.Because I want to make sure that we're going to be getting the money back. And I met a wealthy person years ago and I said, well, how do you get to be rich? And he said, well, you make a widget for 50 cents and you sell it for a dollar. So there's no point in spending a million dollars unless we have an absolutely clear path to getting that money back, you know? And I would, I would tell my clients, if, for your first film, it's such a massive learning curve to switch from making shorts to making your first feature. It is a huge up-leveling of your people, management skills, your money management skills, your time management skills, your creativity skills, you know, it's such an up-leveling. And so there's so much to do that. I often suggest to them, let's keep the budget low.

Joanne (: 24:40

I was just talking to a lady yesterday, she spent $150,000 making a TV pilot. You can't make any money on a TV pilot. And now she's making a feature film. You can make money on a feature film, but she only has $10,000 left to make it. People say filmmakers are notorious, they say, "I'm going to make it happen. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it" with no business plan whatsoever. And, and then they lose the money, and then they're devastated. And I just can't stand it. I just want to see filmmakers make money because then their investors will come back and put money in the next one. And everybody's going to have a good time. That's the way it should be. Have a good time be proud of the film you make, be proud of how far it gets out into the world. And then go ahead and make another one

Mark (: 25:41

And then use that profit to make the next one. Very good. Good advice. Joanne, I've enjoyed our conversation so much, and I just know that there are listeners out there with a film inside them or ready to go to the next level. I love the idea of up-leveling. Let's keep improving our craft, but let's improve our business sense too. So let us know how we can connect with you. Learn more about what you do.

Joanne (: 26:07

Lovely. I have my website is a filmmakersuccess.com. I always have to tell people that's one filmmaker, filmmakersuccess.com. And you can also email me at joanne@filmmakersuccess.com. And yeah, I really love to work with filmmakers. Oh my goodness. I love it so much. And I want to see filmmakers succeed. So please get in touch with me and we'll talk and see if I can help.

Mark (: 26:41

That sounds great. Thanks so much for sharing these stories and experiences and your expertise. I know it's going to be profitable for someone out there listening. That's our hope, Well, our listeners. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation with Joanne Butcher filmmakersuccess.com, and come back again for our next episode. We are going to continue with our around-the-world journeys. We're talking with creative practitioners and supporters and consultants like Joanne all over the world to see how we can organize our ideas and get the confidence and the connections to launch our work out into the world. So until next time, I'm Mark Stinson and we're unlocking your world of creativity. We'll see you soon.