Todd Hoyer, Digital Content Producer

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(: 00:08

welcome back friends to another episode of unlocking your world of creativity. This is the podcast where we talk to creatives all over the world about how they get inspired for new thinking, how they organize their ideas, and most of all, how they gain. connections. And most of all, the confidence to launch their work out into the world. And today we're punching our creative passport in Phoenix, Arizona, and we're talking to my good friend, Todd Hoyer, Todd, welcome to the program.

(: 00:38

Thank you for having me Mark is great to see you after all these years.

(: 00:41

Yes, indeed. It's just like all time a reunion time. That's right. That's right. Well, Todd is a content producer in digital, in animation and film and video, all kinds of mediums. And he's worked in interactive games, trade show, displays branding, and the visual meeting to really tell stories. And I guess that's that's our main focus for today. I hope is to talk about visual storytelling through these mediums. I mean, you've been doing digital and video long before it was called digital, you know, and

(: 01:20

Yeah i often tell people that my, when they talk about how I got into this, I said, well, I got a job and then figure it out. Because when I was in college, I was cutting video tape and film. And then the very first job I got out of college, they're like, here's your computer and your digital not nonlinear editing system. I'm like, I don't know how to use that. And they're like, well, you better figure it out now.

(: 01:42

Now what do I do?

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Like, well, I'm glad I spent those four years in college college .

(: 01:49

Well, and so why don't we just start there in terms of the elements of, you know, shooting the film to make it beautiful. That's great. But editing to make the storytelling, how do you approach that in terms of, you know, flow and structure and style?

(: 02:07

Well, I've always been more drawn to the editing side of things. I came, you know, coming up, you learn how to do a little bit of everything. You know, you shoot some stuff, you learn how to do audio. You, you learn how to edit. But I think the editing part is what I have always gravitated towards putting that story together. And sometimes it's, sometimes there's a plan for it. And sometimes it's a matter of just staring at footage for a day and then going to bed and then, and hoping the next morning, you sort of, it kind of coalesces into some sort of story in your mind. But a lot of times in, in my work where we're really dealing with two sort of different paths to it, one is you're, you're working off of the script, somebody who has written you a story.

(: 02:54

Now you have to visually be able to tell that in a compelling way, and editing is a major component that, and there are certain techniques that, to which you do that. But lately I've been working on a project which is, are really just like mini documentary films. And that is a completely different ball game where you're really going big to small versus sort of small to big. So you're taking, you're taking a lot of elements from a lot of different places, whether it's interviews or, or video footage or something from even like a different project that had been previously done that that is being adapted. And then trying to put that into a into a news story. But the, but the technique I guess, is you really need to be able to listen to it, you know, and really be able to kind of like absorb what you're looking at. I guess I trust my instincts a lot, but sometimes it's, it's not that simple. And you really do have to start experimenting, see if this, this idea coming before this other idea, is that make for a more compelling story than if you just flip them. Sometimes it's just a matter of watching them both ways. Yeah.

(: 04:04

Yeah. That it's not always just linear, like,

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Correct.

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First happens, then that happens, then that happens

(: 04:10

Well. And, and again, and then going back to kind of the thing we talked about just right at the outset where the tools sort of have dictated how people change the way they build stories. And post-production in the old days, when you did have to think more linearly and you really had to plot out what pieces you were putting and how you were literally splicing them together and adding them to each other it, it, it was a lot different of a technique as opposed to nowadays when your tools allow you to see all of the footage all at once to stack stuff in, in various layers, on a nonlinear editing timeline and slide stuff back and forth, and see it sort of in, in, in a more kind of, I guess, shrub, as opposed to a, you know, a line of trees or something, you know that's not a great analogy, but you know what I mean? Like it's, you know, being able to kind of see all the things at once and let a story kind of like grow out of that as opposed to really, you know, having to have a plan going into it.

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I see what you mean.

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So the tools themselves...

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I am visualizing this screen full of, you know, snapshots of.

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oh yeah.

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But, you know, I've heard writers, especially like screenplay writers talk about using index cards on the wall and, you know, moving the, you know, scene one really becomes seen 10 and then, you know, move that and so forth. How do you view it like that in video?

(: 05:44

Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's actually a great point that screenwriters do, whether it's with characters or lines or, or full on scenes and being able to kind of see the, the whole thing at once. And literally how I do it. I, when I'm editing, I have a screen that is just my footage and you know, I make the thumbnails as big as I can. So I can go look at that window in my editing software and see every single shot all at once. And that sometimes will just kind of like trigger that next idea, you know? Or sometimes it's just like a practical thing, oh, I need that shot of that tree. Where was that? You know, and being able to like, look at the wall, the proverbial wall or whatever, and just like, see the whole thing is helpful, but sometimes it's good for just like getting an idea.

(: 06:34

Like, I don't know how to transition from the shot to the shot or, or whatever. And being able to see all that in one sort of big picture is, is incredibly helpful. But, but again, this is where the tools I think have really, I don't, I don't think people realize how much the tools of creativity have completely changed the way you see a film or a TV show or something from today, or even five years ago, then 10, 15, 20 years ago where the, the literal methods of production have completely changed the way the storytelling is, is happening. I mean, there are still certain techniques and everything that are universal and are, you know, are as old as time. But I do think the sophistication of some of this stuff is, is, has really advanced storytelling. And I think you wouldn't have, you wouldn't be able to have these 10 episode Netflix series is say 20 years ago, not because Netflix didn't exist, but you wouldn't be able to produce something at that high of a level at that budget level that you can now, because of the tools that you have to make this stuff, both, both in both in a production standpoint and a post-production.

(: 07:57

Yeah.It's kind of inside out thinking. I mean, at first I would say, I always wanted to tell a story like this, and now I'm really lucky the tools, let me do this, but you're almost saying, because I have this tool, imagine the story I could tell,

(: 08:13

correct.

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That it's really driving it the other way.

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I think so. I, and again, this comes from learning in my education one way, and then immediately having to work in a completely different way, you know? And then over the years, sort of like being able to converse some of the things that you, you have learned historically versus things you've learned, kind of like on the job. And I don't know. I it it's been 25 years and I'm still excited about it. Like, there are still things that surprise me sometimes when something works that I didn't think would, and I wouldn't have thought about it thinking that I wouldn't have thought it have worked. If I had done it the old way, it took the new way to, to put it together, to see it work in that way. Does that make sense?

(: 09:04

And I, I think about the I'll call them markets rather than genres, maybe, but, you know, retail, healthcare, education you know, training and manufacturing, you know, settings, I mean, you've worked in all of these different kinds of settings. Is your approach different? Is your style different? It seems like you'd go into it with a similar mindset, even though the output might look or feel a little bit different.

(: 09:34

Yeah. I mean, I guess in so much as I have a style.

(: 09:39

Yeah. Well, whats that fingerprint the Todd Hoyer style?

(: 09:47

Now, I mean, yeah.Well, that's, that's an interesting question because I mean, the, the simple answer is no, but the, but the, the true answer is, is that every project is different. No matter what the, the genre, if you will, or the, or industry is whether it's a healthcare film or a training film or, or a marketing piece or a commercial or whatever. I don't really see though, I don't see those as, I guess I'm more of like, because I'm more of a technician. I don't see those things as different, you know, I, I, I mean, this might sound like I'm blowing smoke, but like I, creatively get sort of the same excitement, making like a corporate training video as a, as making a, you know, a broadcast TV commercial. They have unique challenges from a creativity standpoint and from a story telling standpoint, and as sort of more of a technician that the genre of it or the audience of it, or the subject matter is, is kind of secondary. I mean, it's sometimes it's ends up being more fun, working on something that's more interesting and exciting, but from a pure technical standpoint, it's, I kind of approach them the same. And I don't see one as being, you know, more I guess, creatively worthy than something else. I see what you mean, even though somebody, somebody as a viewer certainly might,

(: 11:20

Well, yoKnow, somebody says, Hey, if I know I won an award on my wall.

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Yeah.

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This is gonna be why is it at a certain level.

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Yeah. I mean, I, I've always said that, like one of the, my favorite projects I ever worked on was this like food safety training video that I spent nine months working on. And, but it, it took me across the country. I went, I met a ton of incredibly interesting people. There were a lot of interesting production and post-production challenges that that we had to, you know, with translations into other, other you know, languages for, and different cuts for the Asian market for, I mean, it was, it was a very complex project and was incredibly satisfying and I'm super proud of it. And I would not expect anyone to sit through a minute of it and think it was good or not, maybe not good, but, or think it was interesting, I guess, but from a, but from a project standpoint, it was incredibly interesting.

(: 12:15

That's cool. Well, Todd, maybe that takes us to the current project that you're working on and you called it a mini documentary series, which is a nice way to kind of frame it, but it's called salsabrate. The good for a food brand. That's right. Yeah. Tell us about it. Yeah.

(: 12:32

So the, the brand is fresh cravings and our campaign for 2021 is called salsabrate the good, and we are giving $5,000 to 50 different charities and we are making episodes telling their stories and releasing them on all of our social channels, YouTube, Instagram Tik TOK, making Tik TOKs, talk about having to like adapt to the new, to brand new world type stuff like, oh, we're going to make tic-tacs now. Okay. What's a Tik TOK. Let's figure that out. Cause, cause you just sort of changes the way you tell that story too. So it's a, it's a year-long campaign where we're releasing a new episode every week. I don't know when you're, this is going live, but we're around 13 or 14 episodes done and about 36, or so more to go. But it's been really interesting. And, and again, the approach to that, you know, it's easy to say like, oh, we're going to have like a formula and each episode is going to kind of like have this certain cadence or whatever, but it's, it's, hasn't really worked out that way.

(: 13:34

And that's been really a good thing. It's made it a little more challenging to create the episodes, but it's also you know, each, each charity has their own kind of story and telling that story does sort of change the way you, you can't just plug that into a formula, even if, even if one of the things we're really trying to do is like, okay, each episode is two minutes long because if it's over two minute, you know, there, there are all these certain things that you have to kind of you know, hit to make sure you're getting the most engagement out in the, you know, the social marketplace or whatever.

(: 14:08

Yeah. But I see what you mean. Each nonprofit is going to have its own personality and I guess its own tone depending on what the nonprofit cause you know, is all about. And it sounds like you're trying to have, you know, a format but not a cookie cutter formula so to speak.

(: 14:26

Yeah, that's right. And, and, and I, I think I originally had conceived the project of doing just that like, okay, well in order to be able to do this and stay on schedule and stay on ledge and everything, we're going to just have to have a formula. It'd be how it works. And I very quickly abandoned that. And that, that again gets to the, to the whole point of, you know, each, each project has to be taken on kind of as, as its own entity, even if it part of the same campaign, you know? So, you know, it's one thing to say like, oh, I'm working on this this year long campaign, which I am, but I'm really working on like 50 different videos at the same time, essentially, you know, in various degrees of pre-production production and post production. But we've had, we've had great spawn or we we've had great partners that we've, we've partnered with that we've both contributed to, but then they've also contributed to us. I mean, they've been telling us their stories and they've been really generous and it's been, I've met a lot of great people and it's been one of the most rewarding things I've worked on. I mean, it's, it's, you know, this, you know, I've been around a while and then I've never really done anything like this and it's been, it's been, it's been great. It's been really, really fun. And, and I I've enjoyed the work and I've met a lot of great people in the process.

(: 15:38

Well, and in all the years what a year to celebrate some some organizations doing good.

(: 15:45

That was, that was the idea that was the impetus behind. It was, you know 2020, it was a bad year. We want to salsabrate the good and, and, you know, sort of reach out to people who are doing good things in their communities. A lot, some of them that just started because of the pandemic, some people, stuff that people have been doing for a decade, but really had to adjust what they've done. So, you know, that's that, that's the thing that like a through line that kind of goes through the whole series, even if it's really doesn't have anything specifically to do with the charity, everybody having been affected by it. It's, it's impossible to not have that be part of the story too.

(: 16:25

And what sort of research have you had to do to get behind the scenes of these organizations?

(: 16:31

Well, a lot of it has just been reaching out to them. We we've gotten some people have nominated charities that we've been able to partner with. Some people have nominated have reached out to us. And I actually would encourage people to go to our, to the fresh cravings.com/salsabrate website. And you can, you can actually nominate a charity. You can see all the videos that we've done in the charities that we've worked with already. And but a lot of it has just been getting to know people w we've really focused on grassroots charities. This isn't, we're not, I mean, the United way is doing great things and everything and it's, but, but they don't, you know, that's not really, we want to tell stories of people that just, you know, sort of saw a need and, and started doing something and turn it into and turn it into kind of a wonderful thing with the, the amazing thing throughout this, as we've met so many young people that have made me feel really bad about myself, it's like, go getters these like these, like, you know, 16 year olds that have created these great charities and 13 year olds.

(: 17:32

That actually care about the world.

(: 17:34

Right? Yeah, exactly. And they're doing like these amazing things. I'm like, you mean, you're not just like, you know, playing video games and doing nothing like I did when I was 13. But but it's also been very the positivity where like, we're sort of trying to like, get this perpetual motion of positivity going has been, has, has been really kind of nice to see, and it's been really good to be inspired by some of these people, some of these people who yeah. Are, are as young as 13, 14 years old and are doing just amazing things in their communities. So it's, it's been great. It's been a, it's been a lot of fun and yeah, I mean, I'm not really on social media and stuff, but like I know we reconnected on LinkedIn, which is such an amazing thing, but I had probably had not done LinkedIn in like 10 years or something, but then this, this was like, oh, this is like a perfect platform for me, maybe to be able to post these things. So, you know, at least some people can see them.

(: 18:30

That's right. Sounds good. Well, on salsabrate as a, as a brand name of a documentary series, I mean, it has that kind of fun twist to it, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, well,

(: 18:40

We're salsa, fresh cravings is a salsa company. So, you know, we're kind of infusing that into it and and it's sort of been it, it adds kind of like a fun festive element to, to the idea. And a lot of the, some of the charities we've Been working with are dealing with really Kind of like difficult dark things. So to sort of be able to sort of, I don't know, reframe that and, and, and use salsabrate in, in positive ways, even in kind of like these maybe more dark situations has, has, I think kind of, it's been as a storyteller interesting way to like weave those things together. But I also think it's, it's really added to sort of the kind of feel good part of it. I mean, that's, that's the whole thing. It's like, we wanted to do something that like made people feel good and it made us feel good. And it seems to be working so far, you know you know, a quarter of the way through this massive project.

(: 19:34

Yes. All right. Todd, well listeners of this podcast are also creative practitioners like ourselves, it's time to get real and that this project can't be going perfectly. All right. Any any speed bumps, any obstacles [inaudible], we'd like to frame it as lessons learned.

(: 19:57

Yeah. Wow. Let's see. What have I learned ?

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Pit falls to avoid?

(: 20:02

Yeah. man, I mean, this is, you could, this could be a question that you ask anybody at any point in their career and they would not really have a good answer for I mean, I guess this is just sort of a general kind of like philosophy I've always had, or I've developed over the years and you know, confidence is such like a difficult thing as a creative professional or, you know, to, to sort of like trust that, how your seeing something is going to resonate with somebody else. That's almost, unless you're the most confident person in the world, which I don't know many creative professionals who are I think in fact, I think the ones that

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Always looking over our shoulder.

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Yeah. I mean, I think self doubt kind of comes with the territory. But ultimately I think it's about, I have to constantly tell myself this, that, that nothing is ever going to be perfect, but you can, as long as it resonates with you and you are able to kind of understand the story somebody else will too. Now, when we're working in corporate, it's very, you know, you, there are still gatekeepers, right? I mean, there's still people that have to agree with you agree with your vision. And, you know, I think when I was younger, early in my career, I got really defensive about that, you know because I couldn't really see their point of view and I was so sure of my point of view. And I think as I've like advanced my career, I've gotten a lot better at listening to what other people think, you know, and even if, you know, I always say like, just because you disagree with somebody doesn't mean that they're wrong, you know?

(: 21:51

And I think, you know, holding things a little less preciously, creatively, I think can be really helpful and you know, can really allow you to sort of expand your own work. I've, I've gotten a much more collaborative as I've gotten older, my career and I've, and I think I've respected other people's sort of visions and points of view more. And I think that's really helped me be able to improvise a little bit more when things do go wrong and to be able to kind of like trust what other, somebody else's thinking. So yeah. I don't know. Does that answer?

(: 22:33

It does. Yeah, because this idea of collaboration comes up often because even when people say it, maybe they're a solo practitioner, but even if you say, you know, I have a pride of ownership or I, you know, want to maintain the integrity of the idea. Yeah. You still have to work with the people. And so I, I really find it interesting how you described it, just because you don't agree doesn't mean they're wrong. Doesn't mean you're right. It just, it, it means we got to work it out, you know, and maybe that means you have to persuade a little bit stronger or maybe that means you have to listen to their point of view a little harder.

(: 23:15

And you know, is it worth fighting for, you know, I mean, a lot of times it's like, if, if it is then, then it, then you probably are right. You know, you, you know, you, and maybe you should, but but again, this, you know, cycling all the way back to sort of the tools, conversation, this is where the tools sort of help too, because you can look, you can have sit with somebody in an editing suite and show them something seven different ways or whatever, you know, and, and be able to do that. Whereas, you know, back in the linear editing days, you couldn't do that. You know, that would be like, okay, well, if you want me to make that change, come back on third Thursday Or something, I'll show you

(: 23:55

But ISee what you're saying. Now you can say, well, you know, let's take a look.

(: 23:58

Yeah. Let's take a look. Right. Let's try it.

(: 23:59

well, we'll see it and see how it works. And then maybe they see what they suggested, and it doesn't work after all. And they say, you know, you're right. It didn't work.

(: 24:08

But, and then ultimatelyYeah, I always, I always have in the back of my mind, the sort of, I don't know if this is apocryphal or the, or the famous Lorne Michaels quote that Saturday night live, doesn't go on the air because the show's done. It goes on the air because it's 1130 on Saturday, you know? So, I mean, I, at some level, especially when you're dealing with timelines, when you're dealing with budgets, you know when you're dealing with clients or whatever, you know, at some point like there will be a deadline and you have to make those decisions. And I, I probably, I've probably made of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos I've made in my life. I don't think there's a single one that I thought was a hundred percent perfect. Every single one, you know, I can go back and look at and, and wanna move one line of text three pixels over, or, you know, whatever. But but eventually you can get into you know, that that's the whole part of like being the creative professionals that is really important, where at some point you just have to say, all right, this is what it is. And we're all good with it. Let's put it out in the world and let's go onto the next one. We've got 50 of these things to make.

(: 25:17

Yeah. Let's keep, keep moving.

(: 25:18

Keep going.

(: 25:19

Yeah. Well, to go 50,000 foot now we've drawn from the, you know, very technical to what is inspiring. You, you know, what kind of work are you seeing or what kind of, you know techniques or otherwise is inspiring you these days?

(: 25:36

Well, I just made a joke about Tik TOK, and I will say that I am really trying to rewire my brain around my disdain for social media. And part of it is because we are very involved in social media with this campaign specifically, but I think I've been, I've been a little reticent to transition into those techniques and seeing how those platforms really do change storytelling. Right. So if I remember, I remember way back when, well, whatever, when people started putting stuff on YouTube and there was, and from a corporate standpoint, it was always like, if you were doing some sort of marketing and training video or whatever, you're going to put it on YouTube three minutes, like you have three minutes, so, okay. So now you take something that might be a 23 minute documentary piece, and we need to make this three minutes.

(: 26:33

Okay. So now you, you sort of like change the way that you, sorry about that. I get very animated as you, you sort of changed the way that you structure a story, whether it's documentary, whatever to be three minutes. Well, now it's one minute or 30 seconds and yeah. And that's something that the old school part of me just like, I just get this like twinge of anxiety when I hear that, like, oh, I have to make this 30 seconds or 45 seconds. But I'm trying to, I'm trying to come around on that. And when I, when I, I mean, I hate to say, but sometimes I do get inspiration from some kid making tik toks in his kitchen, you know, and how he is telling a beginning, middle and an end. And, and he, you know, he is telling kind of like a compelling, you know, quick little story in a, in a 35 second tik tok. And again, I kind of can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I like, I, I feel like I have to apologize to many people who are, I've said horrible disparaging things too.

(: 27:47

Exactly. But you know,He's saying that this is the age people keep calling it, you know, we gotta be creators. Sure. Yeah. Sitting around and talking about it, you know, or certainly this is not the time for a campfire stories anymore, you know, you're, we're making stuff right. In all mediums.

(: 28:04

Right. But the irony of that is that you are making stuff now we're on a podcast and I like listening to an hour and a half long podcast sometimes maybe not with me and you. Yeah. That's why we only go 30 minutes. That's about how that sounds. Right. But, you know, I think, I think things are sort of diverging in a certain way where, where, or have kind of have been where, yeah. People like the quick and the small, but there still is an audience for people hearing, you know, having like a, long drawn out compelling story. I think that, again, talking about tools and talking about formats, that podcast format, I think does lend itself to something. Cause maybe it's more of a passive experience. You can have it on while you're doing other things, whatever. So you can hear somebody like really get in depth and tell a interesting story.

(: 28:52

Whereas if I'm sitting there, like in the waiting room at the doctor's office and I, I don't want to watch something, I don't know how much time I'm going to have. I don't want to watch something on my little tiny phone that is five minutes long. Like that just seems like an unbelievable amount of time, you know, but at some, some 32 second thing might be incredibly entertaining, incredibly creative. And again, going back to sort of the tools of production thing, the fact that nowadays, yeah, some kid in his, his kitchen can sort of just make something on a phone that really has, is quite high quality, you know? It, it really lends itself to a lot of innovative storytelling and that is, that is inspiring me and annoying just for the record all at the same, all at the same time.

(: 29:45

Well, and you've talked about the, you know, more platforms are available to like a Netflix. I mean, you were going from a ten second tick tok video all the way to, you know, dozens of episodes just because the streaming services exist and they demand the content

(: 30:02

That's right. And it is got to feed the beast. And is that long format still, still works? I mean, do you, do you do this where sometimes it seems like a two hour movie seems like way too much to sit down for, but then you'll watch like four episodes of a hour Long Netflix show?

(: 30:17

Exactly. We got into a show the other day and it said it was four parts. I said, well, we can knock this out, but they didn't say is there was four parts and there's like 13 episodes within that part. And like, you know, at 2:00 AM, I'm like, when is this thing over?

(: 30:33

Yeah,

(: 30:35

it's good. But I don't know if it was a six month investment of my time there.

(: 30:39

Right, Right. Right. Well, at the end it's and that's the whole thing. It's like, if you talk about an investment in time, I mean, what are you going to, we, we it's like, everyone talks about how, like, everything is quicker, quicker, quicker, and people have less, less patients. But I think people have like more patients than ever. It just needs to be the right thing. And it needs to be the thing that like draws them in. And, and then those obviously still exist. I mean, otherwise he's, you know, 10 part, 12 hour long documentaries wouldn't exist.

(: 31:08

Yes. Yes. FascinatingTodd, what a great conversation. Great to catch up to you on all points video and digital and content and creative process really appreciate it. Hey, before we go, make sure we know how to connect with you and follow this series that you're doing.

(: 31:26

You can connect with meOn that. Linkedin is probably the best way to do it. Just search for Todd Hoyer. I'm one of the only ones you should be able to find me on LinkedIn. And if you're interested in our salsabrate, the good the salsabrate, the good campaign and the videos, they're all posted on fresh cravings.com/salsabrate, and you can see all the videos there and you can you can nominate a charity and we still need some cause we've got about sort of 24 lined up and we got about 26 to go. So we're, we're in production on a couple dozen and we're, we're sort of set up through roughly the end of July, but we've got a whole other half of the year to go. So plenty of, plenty of charities to discover. And that's been one of the, one of the great parts of this.

(: 32:12

Wow. We'll definitely check it out. Thanks Todd. Well, listeners, my guest has been Todd Hoyer is a digital content producer is a post-production digital film, multimedia, all sorts of industries and firms he's been able to work with in this production process. And he's really given us some insight on the creative process, you know, from the story and from the production. Todd, we really appreciate you being on the show.

(: 32:42

Thanks Mark.

(: 32:43

And listeners. Come back again. Next time. We'll continue our around the world journey to talk to creatives and artists of all types about where they get inspired, how they organize their ideas and produce their work and get it up and out into the world. And that's what it's really all about. Joining you again, next time. I'm Mark Stinson. We've been unlocking your world of creativity. See you next time.