Laurent Notin, Cracking The Entrepreneurship Code

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Welcome back friends to our podcast, Unlocking Your World of Creativity. And we're so happy today to stamp our creative passport and Helsinki, Finland. It's our first time to Finland, and we're talking with our guest, Lauren Notin. Lauren, welcome to the program.

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Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. It's your first time in Finland and, and you're talking to a French guy.

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I know. I was gonna try to get our world, uh, map out here because you were born in France, uh, worked all in Southeast Asia for, uh, many, many years. And, uh, just in the last couple of years moved to Finland. So, uh, let's talk first about your, I guess when you talk to creative practitioners, entrepreneurs, people with big ideas, you often say that impact is the most frequently heard word. You know, we talk about purpose, find your why, but the, the creative people like us seem to wanna make impact with our work. What is your take? How do you translate that, uh, for us in terms of what impact might be?

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It's, it's funny what you're talking about that because, uh, uh, before you are, you are coming on your podcast, I, uh, recorded an interview for my own podcast with an entrepreneur in Italy, and he talked about, uh, impact. So the way, the way he described it was leaving a legacy behind him, but he was really talking about, it's a sense, it's a sense of purpose. That's what, that's what it is. It's knowing that you are doing it for the right reason and those reason, Well, those reasons are everything except money, and usually it's about helping others. So that entrepreneur I talked to that was that this is what he was about. He, he works in a fit deck, but for him, he is kind of on a mission to help people, people with a specific problem, uh, to help them with the solution that, that he has.

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And that is more important than, than anything else that is more important than money. And what I see, uh, you know, many, many times is that entrepreneurs, well, I'm not sure they, we can call them entrepreneurs, but let's, let's still call them entrepreneurs. . They start, they start a business for the wrong reason. And usually one of the wrong reason is because they want to be rich. You know, they want, they see, they see all what the major talk, talk about, you know, I, they talk about those, those, uh, rich entrepreneurs who had did whole, you know, that like, it was nothing . Right. And how they reach. But that's, that's, that's, that's not the reality. I read somewhere that, I don't remember where it was, but the, the, you know, the, the chance for a startup to become a unicorn is, what was it, three out of 5 million or something like that. Like 0.0, 0, 0, 0, 0 0 9%.

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So you can't, you can't do it for the money, but it has to make sense. Uh, Simon Sinek talks about, start with why. And this is really, this is really what, what, what people best entrepreneurs are talking about. It's, it's doing it for the right reason, reasons that that makes sense to them, because it will help them with everything that they do. It will help them, uh, make the right, uh, the right decisions. It will help them recruit the right people. It will, it will help them, um, work with the right clients, for instance. So it's really, really critical.

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And it's so interesting that, you know, we have now become all aware that we should have our why. You know, we're aware that we should have this, uh, purpose other than money. Yeah. But are we trying to copy somebody else's? Why? You know, it's like, well, because Simon Sinek said this, or because Bne Brown wrote this, You know, that, that there is a sense of ought to, like, I ought to have this purpose, rather than looking inside and doing the hard work of finding what that drive should be for us. Exactly. Personally.

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Exactly. Exactly. Uh, in my case, for instance, I've, you know, before I became a coach, I always worked for others. And when I started, you know, thinking about it, like I thought, you know, it's done that I do something about it that I thought I became an entrepreneur myself because I was surrounded by entrepreneurs. So I think they gave me the virus, plus I was reaching the age of 40, and I was like, Damn, I need to do it now. Cause otherwise I would never do it. So it was really growing in me, but I really, uh, thought about what is it that I really want to do? You know, where will I blossom? And so I really had to think about what makes me, me, what, So I had to go back, I went back to all the experiences that I had at work, and then I realized that the thing that I really was enjoying the most at, at that time I was running companies for others is, was, was around people. It was around training them. It was around mentoring my staff. It was about, it was around coaching them, you know, like, and, and seeing and seeing them, uh, grow in their role. You know, I, I've always enjoyed those haha moments that, that people have, where you can see, you can see the sparkles in their eyes. And I thought, Damn, that's what I want to reproduce again, and again and again. And that's why I became a coach. It just made sense for me. Mm-hmm.

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and Lauren, first of all, I know our listeners have picked up on this, but I love when I hear a French speaking person say the word entrepreneur, since it is a French word, it has so much more passion and beauty behind it, because I know growing up, uh, you know, in my generation anyway, nobody said, Boy, I can't wait to grow up and, you know, be an entrepreneur. I mean, people might have said, Start my own business. Or they might have said, own the family business, but, you know, entrepreneur. And now of course there's degrees, there's books, there's, you know, a whole culture built around entrepreneurship. Uh, what, what do you think drives people to want to create something rather than just work for something at a job?

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Yeah. What I, what I see from, uh, from my guests, uh, and I've interviewed like more than a hundred of them now, is, uh, what I, I see kind of three, three type of, of entrepreneurs. Uh, the first type is those who were born in an entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial family. Uh, and so it's kind of, it's part of them. It's, it's already part of who they are. And usually they mentioned to me that they studied as a kid, you know, they, they were, they were selling candies or whatever, but they studied as a young age, and there's nothing else that they know. They've always done that. Then you have those people coming from the corporate world. And that's interesting because we're going back to purpose there, because those people in the corporate world, all of them, they say more as the same thing. They said, Itt

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You know, I was, had a boss, but I was, I didn't, I was not, I was not, you know, happy about the boss, or I didn't agree with the boss, and I could not, I don't have, I didn't have the freedom of making the decision that I wanted to, so I really decided to do something else. And usually the entrepreneurship is not something that, you know, uh, they say, Well, I'm gonna become an entrepreneur right now. It's something that has, that has nature in them until they thought it was, it was the, the right, the right time. And, and then you have, you have kind of the, uh, the, the other group, which is a bit of everything, , . But you have to, you have to distinguish between entrepreneurs who do that because they need to survive. Uh, so for example, I live in South first East Asia.

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There are a lot of entrepreneurs out there, because there, there is no social security system, for instance, you know, So when they don't make any money, well, they have no money, There's no food on this table. So a lot of, uh, families will, will, uh, will, uh, build a mom and pop shop, right? And usually that is, that is run by the woman. And, but real entrepreneurship, what I'm talking about is, is a colleague. It's like you have it inside you, and it just makes sense. There's nothing else you would do. But sometimes it takes years before it blows ups. Like, in my case, it took 18 years in the, the case of those corporate people. You know, it's, it's also a long, a long process mm-hmm. .

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And once we are the entrepreneur, it's not always smooth sailing , you know,

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It's never

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Exactly, you know, you have this idea, I wanna be my own boss. I had a mentor years ago that said, if I had to work for me, I'd quit. Um, you know, so , you, we had to address some of our own obstacles. And you, you identified these as bottlenecks, but yes, you know, there are symptoms, uh, you know, the slow growth, and you've even enumerated, I don't know, 7, 8, 9, 10 bullets of what causes this stuckness. Uh, give us an idea of why we are the bottleneck. Sometimes

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Well imagine, and it, it's, it, like in your life, you know, we, we often are in our, on our way, on our own way. You know, imagine, imagine like, uh, I don't know, when you, you know, this, um, situation where you're a bit anxious and you start creating all these stories into your head, right? And then you start asking yourself very stupid questions,

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Questions that don't really have any answer, But you keep on doing that, you know, and somehow you're stuck there and you cannot seem to find a way out. But

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Let's, have you ever noticed all those questions come in at an inconvenient time? Like two or three in the morning?

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? Yeah,

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Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. . And that, that's when you are the bottleneck. And that happens a lot with, with, uh, with entrepreneurs too, because, uh, there is no, there is no difference between, uh, the funder and the company. You know, the, the, the, the funder is the company. When the funder or the funders strive, the company strive. When the funders have difficulties, they face challenges, then the company will face challenges too. The entrepreneur is the engine of a, it's like the engine of a car, right? When the engine stops, the car stops. It's exactly the same. So when you become the bottleneck, when you're in a situation where you are stuck mentally, that's what, that's what I'm talking about. Well, then your car, the company is stuck too. Now, how do you get there? Ha. . Yes. That's, that's a, that's a big question. It's so easy to get there. You get there all the time. You're there all the time, actually.

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. Well, exactly. And let's talk about your, uh, travels, because this is what informs a lot of your experience. So take, take us through a little bit of your own, uh, creative journey here from France to Southeast Asia and now to Fenland. How has that gone for you?

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Well, not so far so good, , I left France when I was, uh, 23. So that will, that was like 20, 23 years ago. Uh, and I left France and I went immediately to, I, I finished, I finished my military service because I was the last year of mandatory military service. And I, I ended up in a country called, uh, Laos, uh, in th East Asia. It's a very landlock country where I was supposed, So I followed, I followed my partner at that time, and she found a job, and I didn't have anything. I just followed because I wanted to leave. And we were supposed to stay there initially for nine months. We spent six and a half years . So I started working, this is where I started working for this. I started working for this small research, uh, research agency, market research I'm talking about.

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And a year, if it was like, like a small, small agency, 10 staff, uh, the funders, they were, she was like, uh, French lotion, and he was French, Cambodian. And a year after I started, they turned to me and they said, Look, uh, we are living, we're living to Cambodia. We need someone to run the business, and it's gonna be you. Here are the keys by . Basically, this is, I'm simplifying, but this is more or less how, how it happened. And this is, this is how I started running companies for others. And this is how I started being in management and leadership. And I just loved it from, from day one. And then I moved, I was offered a job in, uh, in Cambodia. Uh, then we are, we are back in 2006, which I took, because after seven years, six and a half years in la, you know, Laos is a small country, 5.5 million people.

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I was like turning into circles. And my partner, my partner followed me. Uh, there, I had, like, I spent like eight years working for a great, a great, uh, great local regional market research agency. I studied as a research director, moved to the country director, and then move, move into the position of, um, of, um, uh, regional director. So covering, covering the, the three countries. But, so now we are 2 20 14, uh, I resigned because I was, I had difficulties with my, uh, with my, uh, uh, shareholders who became the bottleneck in the business. . They said, basically, I won't go through details, move into a advertising, uh, agency, working for an advertising agency, which, which I, which I manage for twenties from 2014, April, 2014 to October, 2017. And then October, 2017, I started my own journey as a, as a, as a coach. But after, you know, 20 years, like yeah, 20 years in East Asia, I was tired.

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I was, I don't know if you've been to Star East Asia, but it's, uh, it's white. Yes. I'm not talking Singapore. Okay. If you, if you went to Singapore, you didn't go to Star East Asia, , you have, you, you have to experience countries like Cambodia, Laos, uh, you know, the Philippines, Vietnam, even Thailand to some, to some extent, to understand, to understand what I mean. But it's, it's a bit chaotic. But it, I loved it for, you know, nearly 20 years. I really enjoyed it. But after 20 years, I was, I was tired of, of it. I needed a change. I needed people to stop at the traffic light. ,

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It's, Well, I was gonna say, I, I have been to Hanoi and, and, uh, and homing city, and I thought that traffic and crossing the street was a metaphor for, you know, the culture and the business and everything. Oh, yeah. Oh, and if you can cross the street, uh, that's a good first step.

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Yeah. It's, it's actually, it's actually a great metaphor. I use, I used, I used to use the same one, uh, but the seminary with driving actually , uh, but, well,

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I didn't even take that chance driving, or not even a scooter, .

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Oh, you know, I'd drive a scooter in, in, uh, not in, but inhi, I'd drive cars in Cambodia. But once you drive, once you have driven over there, you can't drive anywhere. Driving, driving. Infinite is boring.

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Yes. . Well, and I was curious about, you know, and, and you mentioned the, the French influence in these countries. Um, uh, how did you find that in terms of a, working in a business relationship? You know, were you still the outsider, or because there was a sort of a French, uh, I'll say, connection, uh, between the history and the cultures of the countries, Uh, was that different for you?

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It's, I think, I mean, uh, as the white people in Asia in general, there's already like a high, you are respected. Doesn't mean that you are accepted, but, but you're re you're respected French people, uh, a lot, a lot of the old generation in countries like Laos or Cambodia, even Vietnam, to some extent, they do, they still do speak, do speak, uh, French. So, French, French people are maybe a little bit more respected than, than, than other nationalities. But didn't give me, it didn't give me any, uh, any advantages. , you know, being, being French, but you can still see the influence Yeah. Of, uh, the French of the French, uh, best in countries like, well, ours, uh, Cambodia, although they are destroying more and more, uh mm-hmm. , you know, the, the, the old colonial houses, unfortunately. Uh, but nothing, nothing that, that I could, I could use. Uh, because, because to be honest, the young generation, what they're looking at is, is English mm-hmm. , you know? Yes. Uh, in Cambodia, every young person speaks, speaks English, they learn English, and they use English to get out to the world, you know, And Vietnam is following, uh, Thailand also is following. So English is really, is really something, uh, something that gives you that, that, that, that the young people they want to strive for. Yes. French, there you go.

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Well, let's thing bring things up to date then. And, uh, Helsinki for you and Lauren, you're not gonna be surprised, but I hear and connect with a lot of coaches mm-hmm. , and, uh, I put that in air quotes and coaches and trainers and mentors and teachers. But what, what is it about coaching that we as entrepreneurs should, should think about? You know, why do we need this accountability, or why do we need this extra training? Um, there's so many creative practitioners. I mean, we're, we're educated. We, we know what the business is, and certainly we have a handle on the business. Why would we seek outside counsel like yourself?

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Well, you mentioned the word inability. That's clearly something that's clearly something that a, a coach can help with. It can help someone to be accountable for, uh, himself or herself. Mm-hmm. , when you are at the top of the organization, who, who are you accountable to? You know yourself. Okay. Maybe you have a board of advisor, maybe you have a mentor, then you have accountable, you are accountable for them. That's, that's the role of a coach. Mm-hmm. to keep you, to keep you accountable for, for yourself. Also, If you work, if you work in the manufacturing, so many, so many things that at the end of the day, what do you need to focus on?

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You know, what, what matters the most? And there's a big risk. And that is one of the bottleneck as an entrepreneur, One of the big risk is that you get lost into details because you're stuck into the day-to-day operations. Right. And you forget to take a, to take a step back from it, Look at the big picture, think, Okay, this is what I need to do now. This is what I need to focus on right now, because this is what matters the most. That's where a coach can also help. I can help you take that step back and look at the picture. I always use the, the analogy with the wall. Imagine you ha your head and the entire, your entire body is stuck against the wall. Now, if you turn your head left or right, what do you, what do you see? Nothing. You, you see like a plain, straight line.

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You don't see any exits unless it is right next to you. Right. So how do you do to, You don't even know how high the wall is, cuz you can't see, cuz you can't, you don't know where the exit exist, the exists are, and how far they are. You don't even know. You don't even know how long the wall is. So what do you need to do? You need to take a step, two or three steps backwards so you can analyze a situation from a different perspective. Well, that's what a coach does. Yes. Helps you take those steps back.

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And in a way, people wait until they are stuck, you know, to think about a coach. But again, I had someone share with me the analogy. I mean, Serena Williams has a, a coach. She's a great tennis player, but she still has a coach. Uh, somebody asked if the Rolling Stones still have to practice and rehearse before every concert, even though they played Start me up, you know, a billion times over the years. And the answer is yes, of course. I mean, Tom Hanks as a director, um, you know, so why, uh, do you feel that people sometimes wait or do they engage you when they're kind of at the top of the game and wanna maintain it?

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No, usually it's more, it's more that when they are facing an issue that they engage, they engage me, not when they're at the top of the game. Because when they're at top of the game, you know, they're there. So they don't feel, they don't feel the need. Ego often gets on the way. Mm-hmm. , you know, I, I'm an entrepreneur, I have an ego. Okay, don't tell me what to do because I know Right.

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Everything's going great. Yeah. ,

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Yes. Yeah. Complex complacency is actually another bottleneck. Uh, but even when things are not going, not going well, uh, believe entrepreneurs have a lot of difficulties, uh, to ask for help because they think that help is not the right thing to do. You know, it's, it's, it's going to devalue them. Okay. It's not, they shouldn't just, shouldn't have to ask for help. For help. Right. Oh, good. Okay. So good. So of course, you can do everything by yourself, , if you, if you want to, But you can also turn to professionals who actually know what they're talking about so that you can strive. There is no shape in asking for help. Asking for help will actually help you get there, get where you want to go.

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Hmm. So good. Well, my guess has been Lauren, no, frontin, Penland. Lauren. Uh, before we close, I wanted to think about this one thought that you had as that you were talking about a successful entrepreneur, one who is at the top of their game Yeah. But still could be so lost in the details and like, uh, myopia here, that they're not celebrating those successes. You, you saw that as a sign in a symptom that they're too stuck in the business, uh, that they're not stopping to celebrate.

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Yeah. There, you know, um, I've talked to, uh, to, to one entrepreneur. One, one of my clients actually, he became a, became a client. He was talking about, uh, you know, as cheesy as it sounds, he was talking about, uh, enjoying the journey, Investors being focusing on one big after another. And that's, that's, that's the problem with, um, with being, uh, successful, you know, that you can first, first, what is success, really? Okay. Don't measure success to what others do. Measure success to what you want success to be. So ask always ask yourself, what is success for you? That's, that's right. Question. But then, you know, going from one peak to another is great, but what's the point? You go there, and then once you are at that peak, you go to the next peak and you go to the next peak and it never ends, you know? So, because it never ends, because, anyway, entrepreneurship is, is a journey. You know, when it starts, you never know when it's gonna end. You better enjoy it on the way

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. Yeah, for sure,

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For sure. Take the time to reflect, take the time to celebrate the wins, the, the failures. Take the time to enjoy it yourself. Take the time to take care of yourself too. Mm.

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So good. And Lauren, what, what's on your creative plate these days? As, you know, you're looking after other entrepreneurs, but you're, you're running a business and Yeah. You know, you're a creative practitioner, uh, in and of yourself. So what, what's on your laptop or desktop these days that you're working on?

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Oh, so many things. All the time. I s all but I like, you know, is my website the right? Is my website. Okay. Uh, what should I do? What should I do, you know, for my social major, But what is on my plate right now, which I want to focus on next, is my new ebook. I already have the title. You want it?

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Yes.

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The good, the bad, and the Reality. What does it take to be an Entrepreneur?

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I love it.

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. There you go. Now when, when am I going to write it? I don't know yet. . Yes, but hey, you have

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The title. Yes. Well, uh, you know, the thing about podcasts, as you know, is you don't know if there's five people listening or 5,000 people listening at any given moment, Right? But let's just say you have about 500 accountability partners who are going to, uh, respond to this podcast and say, Hey Lauren, where's that ebook? Let's get after. Exactly. So we're gonna be your partner in the journey,

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. Exactly, exactly. That's a great way to be, uh, accountable for yourself. Announce it perfectly.

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There you go. Well, you just, yeah. Well, this is my guest is Lauren Noah. He's been a terrific, uh, coach and helpful partner to many entrepreneurs, and we've learned so much from your experience today. Appreciate it, Lauren.

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Thank you. Thank you very much

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For, and, uh, be sure to tell us how we can connect with you and learn more about your work and follow you.

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Sure. You can, uh, always, uh, check out my website, loha nuta uh, dot com. Uh, you can contact me by email contact lohan.com or reach out on LinkedIn. Same lohan. I always, I reply to all emails and to all the connections or messages on LinkedIn.

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Fantastic. Well, we'll put all those in the show notes so, uh, we can link 'em and we can spell your name correctly and we can find you in all the good stuff.

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. So. Well,

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I've, I've enjoyed my trip to Helsinki today. We'll have to make it, uh, real next time, not just virtual. And I'm sure you have a, a great coffee shop or even better, a great pub where we could meet up and share more stories.

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Yes. And Sona, remember Sona, Sona, I enjoy sauna. Like a real, the real theme, the ultimate finish experience. Sona, very good. .

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Well, listeners, join me again as we continue our creative travels. Uh, we've exceeded a hundred thousand downloads. We're well into our 200th episode, uh, and beyond. So continue traveling with us as we talk to creative practitioners around the world about how they get inspired and how they organize their ideas, and most of all, how they gain the confidence and the connections to launch their work out into the world. So until next time, I'm Mark Stinson and we've been unlocking your world of creativity. See you next time.